User blog:ElixirBlue/Type 8 Existence Eraser

For those who are confused and seeing this for the first time, this is part of a debate whether Sonic resists Existence Erasure from the Ultimate Annihilator or not. _____________________________________________________________

> It says "Sonic and Mobius [return]" there is no distinction between what happens to them, the only assumption that can be made is they returned the same way.

So you admit you’re assuming.

Context:

Dr. Robotnik has finally done it. After years of battling against Sonic for Complete Domination of the planet, Dr. Robotnik has built his ultimate weapon. The Ultimate Annihilator. A weapon so powerful, it can wipe the entire Universe out of existence without the power of the Chaos Emeralds.

After manipulating the politics of Knothole and sending his foe into prison, Dr. Robotnik is ready to fire his weapon on Knothole itself. Only for Sonic, the Blue Blur, to make his comeback and challenge the good Doctor. The Ultimate Annihilator is fired and seemingly erases Knothole from Existence. Then the Ultimate Annihilator blows up from Antione’s sabotage, resulting in the Ultimate Annihilator’s systems to overload and begin crashing. With Antione and Bunnie long gone, the only ones staying to remain in the vicinity of Ground Zero Existence Erasure overloading were Sonic the Hedgehog and Dr. Robotnik.

They fought, they punch, they kicked, they blasted. Going all out on their final, last fight. Very shortly, the War Room filled with Existence Erasing energy and Sonic and Robotnik faded into White Space.

Immediately, a white gloves hand shoots out of a ring, leaving White Space. Sonic survived! After his body materialize, Sonic feels faint. After exhausting himself, emotional and physically Robotnik did on the Hedgehog, Sonic collapses and sleeps.

1. Clothes and Metal Arm
Despite the Ultimate Annihilator only targeting Robotnik’s bio data, his clothes and Metal arm gets erased from existence which aren’t biologically linked to Robotnik.

Counter argument~
Robotnik’s clothes and Metal Arm could’ve still been left behind and Reality Warping could’ve consciously replicated his clothes and metal arm to look exactly like what he had before he was erased.

B-b-b-but it’s a kid’s comic so they couldn’t draw him naked

Answering the unfounded assumption~
Robotnik’s clothes and Metal Arm were never shown in any panels and in no dialogue mentioning them. Also, the reality warping that brought him back was manipulated by the current Dr. “Eggman” Robotnik, and he was surprised at seeing the late Prime Robotnik show up.

Meta “Common-Sense” don’t apply when￼ analyzing a story itself for feats, due to the fact that it’s impossible to gauge the author’s “common sense” when other “kids” programs have shown human characters being naked.￼

2. Sonic’s Ring
Sonic comes out of White Space from a ring. It was necessary to draw Sonic coming out of a ring after getting blasted by EE. Sonic was the only closest being to Ground Zero from an overloading Ultimate Annihilator with Unpredictable results (Bunnie is later shown in the comic to travel across the continent, the states, with Sonic in less than a day. Antonie and her were long gone in those 10 minutes when the bomb blew off.) while clinging onto Robotnik, who that we know for sure was going to get affected, whether the Ultimate Annihilator unstably overloaded or not.

Counter argument~
We don’t know if it’s the ring aura or influence by the one billionth ring.

> You're putting "words" in the comic's mouth by inserting an unfounded theory into the narrative.

Rebuttal with what is in the narrative~
In the comic’s narrative, Sonic gains a special ring after collecting 1 billion rings. The Ancient Walkers, Sonic’s 2-A high Multiversal Gods, says Sonic is the only one to have reached this number and is then granted a special ring that surrounds him with protective aura.

The Ancient Walkers are never casually used in the Archie Sonic Comic’s narrative. Every action they take alludes to great importance.

In Mecha Madness, it is explain that the ring given to Sonic by the Ancient Walkers protects Sonic’s life force.

In Sonic Live, Sonic legitimately got vaporized and survived. There’s nothing to contradict the SwatBots that fired and hit Sonic wasn’t with vaporizing beams. The electrical storm happened the exact same time Sonic got vaporized, implying he caused it, as the story offers no other explanation of the cause.

The story implies through the narrative that Sonic is protected by a special Ring the 2-A Ancient Walkers gave him. No other person on Mobius or its Multiverse, has been given that sort of gift by the Ancient Walkers.

3. Antione’s Sabotage
Before the final battle, Sonic met Bunnie and Antione. They explain they are going to sabotage the Ultimate Annihilator. The Ultimate Annihilator blows up, causing the software system to crash and circuits to cross resulting in internalized energy emissions. As explained above, Bunnie and Antione are long gone and Snivley’s location is unknown.

Counter argument~
Irrelevant. The Ultimate Annihilator overloading and system crashing doesn’t change the fact Dr. Quack stated the U.A. could only affect Robotnik.

Rebuttal~
Robotnik, thinking his bio data wasn’t entered into the Ultimate Annihilator, still thought he was about to die from the Energy Emissions.

[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emission_spectrum#Emission Energy Emissions in physics, is the process by which a higher energy quantum mechanical state of a particle becomes converted to a lower one through the emission of a photon, resulting in the production of light. The frequency of light emitted is a function of the energy of the transition.] (1, 2, and 3 if you want to learn more about Emissions)

When Dr. Quack made his quote, he was referring to when the Ultimate Annihilator is used normally, no one but Robotnik was in danger.

But that was before Bunnie and Antione was able to sabotage the Ultimate Annihilator.

The little information that Dr. Quack knows about U.A. only pertains to when the Ultimate Annihilator is operating normally and the software that controls the U.A. is functioning correctly. System crashing. The Ultimate Annihilator that fires on Knothole was a concentrated beam going through a satellite, which was how it was intended to be used.

The Ultimate

1. Dr. Quack
Dr. Quack said only Robotnik’s Bio Data could have been affected by the Ultimate Annihilator.

Dr. Quack’s quote: “What Robotnik also didn’t know was that his nephew Snivley had other plans. I noticed he altered the Neutron Eradicator to affect only one organic pattern out of the many originally programmed.”

Counter argument~
^ See above for Robotnik’s Clothes and Metal Arm being affected without them being biologically linked to Robotnik ^￼

^ See above for Antione’s sabotage on the Ultimate Annihilator ^

v See below for Locke’s quote about the entire Universe being erased no matter the timeframe despite not everything being biological v

Dr. Quack said Snivley altered the Ultimate Annihilator to affect only Robotnik out of the many originally programmed.

Key word, altered, not delete.

Dr. Quack also proves himself that he is not reliable when it comes to meta information. Meta information is information explained by a character to the￼ audience on how an event or the workings of a machine functions.

￼There are two points that puts Dr. Quack’s￼￼ reliability of his Meta￼ commentary into question. The next moment after he explains why he didn’t act during the Endgame Arc, he talks about Sally and about her being in a coma.

Despite Dr. Quack’s profession is to be a medical doctor, he couldn’t tell Sonic when or if Sally would ever wake up from her fall-￼induced coma. Only for Sonic to wake Sally up right after as he ran over and gave her a kiss (1st point).

Dr. Quack can tell us Snivley’s intention on betraying Robotnik, but the information he provides on technology his character should not have had access to (2nd point), his words should be taken with a grain of salt.

Before you say Dr. Quack had access to understanding the full￼￼ extent of the Ultimate Annihilator, Robotnik only brought Dr. Quack in for his Neutron Chip. His knowledge only extends to the chip that was in his Dream Watcher, not to the machine capable of EE.￼￼￼￼

2. Locke and The Encyclopedia
Locke and the￼ Encyclopedia said all of Mobius blips out of existence. Locke says a billionth of a second￼ and the￼ Encyclopedia says an instant. Let’s assume Locke was counting Sonic and let’s assume the￼ Encyclopedia “Sonic and Mobius blips out of existence” to say that the words mean they were erased the same way.

Locke’s quote: “When the Omega Wave wiped everything out of existence in the Primary Zone for just a billionth of second, it accelerated the entropic effect, allowing the buffers between zones to break down.”

Counter argument~
The counter argument relies on the points to rely on each other but they don’t state a fact on whether Sonic didn’t resist EE or did.

First, let’s look at Locke. Locke, for one, states the fact Mobius blip out of existence for a billionth of a second which is causing head aches for that point in the story.

Locke is a knowledgeable character with advance technology. There is not a doubt of mind that his statement of the Universe (The encyclopedia just mentions Mobius, not the universe. If we completely relied on the￼ Encyclopedia, we would have to rate the Ultimate Annihilator as Planetary, not Universal. That itself causes continuity issues.) was wiped from Existence. That at least supports Sonic￼ would have been erased no matter what.

But then,￼ not only Robotnik’s Clothes and Metal Arm, but Locke’s quote also goes against Dr. Quack’s (As Sonic said in issue 43, Dr. Quack is starting to live up to his name) quote of the Ultimate Annihilator only being able to erase Robotnik from existence because of his Bio Data.

However, Locke doesn’t mention Sonic. More importantly, Locke, who would’ve been in the perfect position￼￼ to relay￼ information and clear up a mystery, did not mention anyone or anything￼ (anything, as Locke’s quote being the entire Universe, would mean it can erase more than just bio data￼) coming out of a ring.

Second, let’s look at the quote from The Encyclopedia, that relies on Locke’s quote￼.

The Encyclopedia Quote: “Sonic and Mobius, meanwhile, only blipped out of existence for an instant before returning.”

This quote, again, is repeating information given by Locke, offering nothing new to the situation. The only thing it changed is the timeframe, the Universal to Planetary￼ range that goes against pocket dimensions popping up in the after-math, and mentioning Sonic by name.

Now the question is~
The Encyclopedia took information from Locke but originally Locke never mentioned Sonic. The Encyclopedia chose to mention Sonic.

But what did they say about Sonic that Locke didn’t already said about the universe? Nothing. The Encyclopedia doesn’t establish a link between Sonic and the universe when everything got erased.￼￼￼￼￼￼￼ It only further separates Sonic and the universe as two separate entities getting erased than just taking Locke’s quote at face value.

Locke’s quote says the entire universe. That thinking would include Sonic but Locke’s character isn’t omnipotent and doesn’t mention any rings. The Encyclopedia, is on some level is nigh-omnipotent, could’ve made things clearer and could’ve made a general statement of “Everything in the Universe except Robotnik returned from Non-Existence” but instead, the Encyclopedia separated Sonic from the Universe by mentioning Sonic out of the general statement of “Mobius”.

Verdict:
Archie Sonic mostly likely has Resistance to EE. While nothing is outright stated￼ in support of this feat, Robotnik’s Clothes and Metal Arm are not biologically linked to Robotnik has been erased along with him, Antione’s Sabotage on the Ultimate Annihilator causing the unpredictable nature of an overloaded Ultimate Annihilator￼, the fact Snivley never deleted Sonic’s bio data but alter it so it would still be in the system to avoid detection from Robotnik, Sonic holding Robotnik as they￼ disappear into White Space,￼ Sonic being stated to be the only one at Ground Zero, Sonic escaping from White Space through a ring that no one else mentions but no one else saw￼ him escaping through a ring, Sonic being established earlier on to be the only one protected by ring aura gifted￼ by 2-A Gods that stated Sonic was the only one to reach that amount of 1 billion rings that protects Sonic’s Life Force.

Magic number 7 evidences in support of Sonic’s resistance to EE.

The evidence that goes against the idea of Sonic having resistance to existence erasure is based on the assumptions that those characters are mouthpieces of the author, wanting explanation on what happened to Sonic as the opponents of Sonic’s Type 8 immortality are looking for out right statements to rely on.

But Dr. Quack’s statements are more for why he didn’t act during the arc to save Knothole and Locke was just explaining the Ultimate Annihilator’s range and why￼ Echidnaopolis appeared out of nowhere in front of Knuckles for the current plot.

Those statements didn’t directly go against Sonic having resistance to EE, due to the circumstances I explained above.￼

Final thoughts￼:
Archie Sonic the Hedgehog’s Resistance to EE is clearly not the most clear cut ability he has and will possibly forever￼￼ be argued against.￼

However, there is a lot of evidence that does support the possibility of him having it and the evidence that goes against it is based on what people perceive the narrative to be telling.￼ The opposing thinking is, since the dialogue from certain characters￼ are trying to say it’s one way, despite a couple of things supporting another way, we should follow what the characters say on what could possibly have happened￼, rather than interpreting all of the events to work together as a whole.

On that, I am against. We should definitely consider every evidence, coming from dialogue to characters who say what and what kind of characters they are to events to art in panels and see everything as a whole. Instead of focusing on one aspect(dialogue for a scene) and making everything work around it.

_____________________________

In the end, the main argument presented against Sonic being able to resist Existence Erasure is “If it was the author’s intention, why didn’t they just tell us?”

To that my answer is “I don’t know. But the evidence is there.”